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The Mirror – Are vaccine Passports discriminatory or necessary? The News Agenda Explained

Good morning everyone welcome to the news agenda with me Fleet Street Fox just before we’ve come live my script has vanished off my screen. It filled my screen temporarily. I couldn’t see this at all. I thought I’m going to do it and then now my scripts disappeared but anyway, welcome to the news agenda of Fleet Street, and today I’m joined with my normal brilliant efficiency with Mira’s online travel agency Julie Delahaye and we’re going to take you through the biggest stories of the day, the most important things that we look at those papers and also. Hear your questions so dig into the comments and tell us what’s going on in your head and we’ll do our best to answer them for you. now. we’re going to be talking about holidays and vaccine passports travel corridors and what you can and can’t do so. ask us anything at all. That’s on your mind about that and we’ll do our best to answer them for you. So what have we got today? Well, The mirror has splashed on the idea of vaccine passports for shops having already. The possibility of vaccine passports for going on holiday. the government is now considering whether you might need one to go into a nonessential shop, so you won’t need one for a supermarket, but you might need one to go to Primark Now. This is the kind of thing Julie, which you know 60% of people think this isn’t such a bad idea. They’re kind of happy with it really, but politicians are very crossed because they think it’s the end of Democratic freedom and businesses. Cross because they think think it’s just an unnecessary load of bureaucracy and extra work when they’re already having to do an awful lot of things to get people back in the door. So is it is it a good idea really to have these health checks at the door of whether it’s primark or an airport or a hotel or anything else is it going to is it going to be a good idea and help us all get back to normal or not? It’s such a tough one. isn’t it? I think. the for travel specifically, I think it’s inevitable that just to go on holiday, you’re you’re going to have to have some sort of vaccine certification. Or at least proof of a negative test like a lot of countries have already said this. I guess in things like airports and hotels. It’s a hard one. they’re there are already some hotels that are offering free testing when you’re on holiday. So I guess that’s a step they’ve already taken but yeah, it’s hard. isn’t it because you you want some sort of freedom, but I guess for the holidays specifically vaccine passports kind of make sense whilst all the countries are trying to work out what they’re doing, but that’s different. Going to my local like I don’t yeah, I don’t know I feel like there’s already a huge queues at the near where I live. so I feel like stuff like this. just I mean it’s not just about the queues obviously, but I don’t know it’s a difficult one. I think it’s one of those where some people will obviously feel much safer like you know you go to to the supermarket at the moment and that’s not got a vaccine health check but you need your masks and some people find that really safe and others might feel quite stressed. Going in so, yeah, it’s good isn’t it, Gemma says. Where are you getting the figure of people being happy with them? That’s a lie? No, It isn’t Gemma. It’s 60% figure has been shown in a public survey and polling reported in the past week. I’m sure we can find the link for you and put it in the comments. It’s not a lie It may well be that you don’t feel happy about it but generally speaking the surveys show that 60% of people are happy. of course, that means 40% are unhappy. and but if you remember right at the start of this pandemic when the government. Sure, whether or not we should be wearing masks in public. the politicians were talking about it. They’re doing the same arguments, they’re saying it’s an imposition of freedoms. There are people saying no one’s happy about this. I won’t be able to breathe in the mask on all the people that ever all that in the NHS who want to carry out surgery in an operating theater, but no seriously is fine, you you want a mask on. and then once they sort of came in loads of people are happy to wear them. Most people have. Used to it and it’s something that we realized. that’s how you just have to be safe and make sure everyone else feels safe as well. I was shopping in the supermarket, the other day and everyone’s wearing a mask. There’s one guy who wasn’t he was a younger man. I couldn’t really see any earthly reason that he really would have a medical reason not to wear a mask and just really felt that he was being a bit of an **** frankly, but as we say that on the last page in the mirror we are divided on this issue. whether you need covid passports now do you know this? Tell me about this okay because you have to have to some countries A vaccine passport already don’t you you have. Have jabs like yellow fever to go to foreign countries to be allowed in at passport control? What is the difference between that and a possible covid vaccine passport if you want to go on holiday? I personally don’t really see a difference like I’ve been on holidays where the I think travel traveling for a holiday is a bit of a luxury. so if you’re if you want to go to a country and that country’s requirements is that you need a vaccine for yellow fever or you need to take malaria tablets or they’ve asked that you’ve got certain you know that it’s works both ways like if you’re traveling to abroad to a different country they need to protect their citizens as much as you need to be protected and honestly like you’ll you’ll get the job to you know for like yellow fever. and it was horrible but I didn’t get. A fever and I got to go on my holiday so at the end of the day if you want to travel it, it’s going to be a requirement for now. Some countries have said it at the moment because obviously vaccine roll outs are so different around the world. Some countries have said that initially going to reopen to vaccinated tourists, I think Thailand is reopening parts just to vaccinate travelers at the beginning and then they’ve said from there on they’ll see how it goes and then they’ll start to welcome back people who’ve. To show proof of a negative test so if you, if you’re someone who can’t get the job for a medical reason or whatever that doesn’t mean, you’re not going to be able to go on holiday, but I think for now we’ve just got to accept that it is just going to be another requirement for travel. It would just be something else. You’ve got to take off on your admin list exactly now keep asking your questions are you going on a holiday this year? Have you bought one? Are you planning to go on one? Do you need to go abroad? perhaps to see family and relatives and how do you feel about? If you got travel insurance are you going to be happy to take a vaccine? passport? Let us know do you agree with Gemma? Do you think that it’s not necessary or do you really are quite happy to do it now, Emma says to travel to some countries we need proof of vaccines to enter. It’s not much difference with the covid vaccine as we were just saying with the yellow fever, the fact is that most people don’t have to go to yellow fever countries on a on a regular basis. I’ve got the job too because I’ve had to go for work once or twice, but unless you’re going to sort of. Of equatorial countries around the globe, which very rarely holiday destinations, then you don’t really have to have one and it it’s now looking like you might have to have that kind of thing to go somewhere far near and far more common just to go to a beach in Spain or whatever it might be. People are going to have this concern and I think as I mean it doesn’t really matter. what our politicians here do or don’t impose on us because the possibilities of the likelihood are that other countries are going to make it an entry requirement, even if we don’t do it. so it’s kind of not up to us in a way. have you heard whether foreign governments like Greece or Spain or anything? are they going to ask for proof of vaccination on entry? Yeah. So? Some it depends on the country, but so I don’t and this The nature of travel is that this might change by the time that you know we finish this live, but there are some countries that have said, so Cypress, I think has said that they would accept vaccinated Brits once restrictions lift in the UK Portugal I think have they definitely said about the vaccine. I don’t know if they’ve also said they’ll accept a negative test. Iceland has said it will accept vaccinated travelers and you know. Because he was saying about people visiting families and friends like obviously at the moment, travel is bound but essential travel. There are some legally permitted reasons you can travel so if you do you know if you do have someone who’s a family member who’s not well and you need to go and look for them. There are look at I’m sorry. there are ways that you can travel you just need to show a reason but. yeah, I think there are there are a lot of destinations have said they will reopen to vaccinated. Brits especially places like Spain and Portugal and Greece. You know Brits make up a huge percentage of that tourism market for them so those people the the locals there the hotels the bars like that you know, they’re they’re they’ll do anything to welcome back Brit, but they also they have to keep themselves safe. So I think there are some countries I would say. especially with this new traffic light system that might give us a bit of a better indication of where we’ll we’ll be able to actually. Go on holiday if we can in this summer. but yeah, I would say if you’re if you do want to travel the one of the best places to go is the foreign office advice because that’s where you’ll see all the entry requirements any local lockdowns as well because that’s also another thing is yeah, you might be able to go on holiday on the beach, but if you’ve got to wear a face mask while you’re sunbathing and not, you know, it’s open and things that you might not want to go. what’s the point that? Andrew says why I have a vaccine for a virus with a 99.5% survival rate and then to say you can’t travel without it all sounds like control to me the reason for that is that the survival rate is just the survival rate the sickness rate and the treatment rate and the problems to the hospital’s rate is significantly worse so in order to survive most people are going to have to have had you know a level of hospital treatment or medical care that now. We know more about the virus than we did this time last year, we have some treatments like dexamethasone steroids and they know better about how to sort of prone people and turn them when they have it really bad and they’re in intensive care and they’re on ventilators, but that actually means you spend longer in hospital. with covid now than you would have done if you’re in hostile with covid last year because you would have died last year was this year, you’re more likely to survive it so as a result, a lot of the problem of covid. From the death rate, which is worse in some communities, hopefully mercifully not yours, but in other communities, perhaps aside from the death rate, the issue is the amount of medical care those who get it require. It’s the fact they can’t work. It’s the fact systems then collapse, so you have to have a vaccine in order to make the hospitals and health systems struggle along at a at a reasonable level rather than get overloaded and have people dying corridors, which is what happened in Italy this time last year. Zoey says traveling is not always a luxury We travel to Italy to see family as my husband’s family lived there. We’ve not been able to go for 2 years My mother in in law has not met her only grandchild yet only via zoom if I need a vaccine passport to get my family back together, then so be it. This is it isn’t it So it’s not all the fact that people I want to go and all day I want to go to bed. do the people that I speak to someone last night’s a friend of mine. She’s got a family in the Caribbean hasn’t seen the an awfully long time children have grown up without knowing their relatives and you know. Adults who are seeing elderly relatives, for example, in some of the you know finite number of years left and there are people who want to go. That’s not a reason they don’t have to go and care for someone like you mentioned, but they want to see your family and what is the problem there with this traffic light system that you mentioned because you can have a green light. Let’s say to go and see family in Barbados or Italy like Zoe and then something changes while you’re away suddenly the light goes red. What do you do then? Well, so this is we haven’t they haven’t really surprisingly they haven’t yet flushed out how it will work. so we’re hoping to get an update within the next few days. So the way the traffic light system in theory will work is that you’re if you’re your country’s on the green list you can go on holiday. You can come back and you in theory won’t need to quarantine Amber and red will have quarantine and isolation when you come back to the UK. so. I don’t know if you remember the travel corals last year, just as someone that was trying to keep on top of them, you know to to let people know where they could travel it. it was leaving people scrambling on a Thursday at 5 PM they’d decided that someone was off the list on the red list and you had to get back before 4 AM on Saturday, so you won’t have to quarantine. so what I’m really hoping with this new system is that it’s a bit more stable that if someone’s on the green list, it’s because they think it will be safe at least. You know that the cases have been controlled that the vaccine rollout is. working. I mean mean they have said that those are the kind of things I’ll be looking at. There’s a global global travel task force, which is in place and they’ve said they will consider things like variants country’s links. you know, Portugal was put on the red list earlier this year. It’s been removed now, but it was put on because it had links to Brazil where there was an a mutant strain. So I think hopefully when we have these lists, they’ll be fairly set that a green list you could in theory go on your holiday in the summer and you. There’s always going to be a bit of a degree of risk at the moment it is it is a pandemic, but hopefully the green, this will be very much like you’d you’d have to be really unlucky for cases to start soaring and vaccine roll outs to get halted or something and I just I just don’t see that happening. I mean I’m optimistic so I think I think the fact is if you’re if you’re going to go on holiday. try to go to a country that has had a successful vaccine program. Yeah, very good frogs because they’re going to have some problems. I keep asking us your. Everybody tell us have you booked a holiday. Are you happy to have a a vaccine passport? Are you happy to have a vaccine passport to go to shops or pubs? Will it make you feel safer? Does it do it do you that would be discriminatory like Jade says. Why is a vaccine passport to gain entry the pubs or shops necessary when it’s been said by medical professionals and the government that it doesn’t stop the passing or contracting of the the virus. It’s definitely discriminating it does stop the passing and contracting of the virus. Jade it doesn’t 100. Stop it so they don’t know the level yet of how much of the passage and the infection rate it actually does stop. It’s a percentage of the total. I don’t know if it’s 60% or 80% or 40% or what but they are working on that they will find that out very soon when hopes because the more people vaccinated they can, they can get that data It does stop the contracting it stops you getting serious illness, you’re less likely to go to hospital, you’re less likely to die. You’re going to be. Safer as a result, so that’s why the vaccine passport is considered necessary, but Julie one of the issues here. I think perhaps is that people like Jade and Gemma that we had earlier on, they look to me to be younger and of course they’re not in the first wave or any of the waves so far of people getting the vaccine, which may be why they’re a bit about the requirement to have it if you want to go to the pub or the shops or go on holiday, how much of the travel industry is dependent on that younger section of. Society to actually keep it going because I have people right, I have all been vaccinated and the the silver travelers happy to go anywhere they like now, I’ll skip about the place right and everything else. but what about the younger people? What can they do? I mean? I think this is why some countries have said that whilst whilst vaccine roll outs aren’t global and and finished, I think this is why some countries have said you can show proof of a negative test or you may need that there are some places. If you have a negative test you can cut your quarantine so it’s it’s kind of up to you whether whether you’re willing to spend a few days in quarantine for a specific destination, but generally a negative test should. Would get you into the country without the need for quarantine again? It’s it really depends on the destination. I think young people obviously make a huge you’re a huge part of travel but it it it depends on the destination the type of holiday you know for cruises, for example, it’s definitely an older market and and a lot of cruise lines have already started to say that you might need to you’ll need to be vaccinated at least if you want to go on holiday at the moment in 2021. Yeah, I think. it it. Much do do you want to go on holiday? I think it’s one of those things isn’t it like if you and your friends really want to go to Portugal and the admin will be that you need to take that test you you’ve got to kind of way up whether that’s something you’re willing to do. I mean to talk about locations as well. There are I know people want to go somewhere. I like I know Britain doesn’t always have the weather and but if you are, you know if it’s because you want to go away with your friends because we haven’t been able to do that for so long like don’t you know don’t immediately. Dismissed the UK. It’s got so many cool beaches. It’s got like cool attractions. you can get some we did. I’m sure we can put the link in. we did a story about pubs that you can hire entire pubs that you and your friends can just hire a lot and you get a working bar and you know that. it depends what kind of holiday you’re after if you’re really keen to go abroad, I think at the moment you know you know, I’m in my 30s. I’m not I’m touch with, but I’m fairly healthy. I’m not anticipating being vaccinated anytime soon and. If I want to go abroad, I’m personally willing to just have to do the tests and all of the admin that comes with that I think once vaccine roll outs have you know once vaccination programs are a lot more successful around the world and that the majority is vaccinated, then we can have a proper conversation. I guess about. Being left out potentially of days, but right now. we’re still in the pandemic. It’s we’re still in the we’re still in the midst of it aren’t we and people are saying I wanted to get back to normal and it just you gotta be more patient. I don’t think it’s going to be and Mike says Morning Mike All these tourists coming to the UK about 8000 a day reported this week. Well they need some form of vaccine passport and how would it be administered? This is a point Judy now, as mentioned this we’re talking about vaccine passports to go. where are we asking for when people come here or not? I actually do. The answer to that so I mean we have there are border rules at the moment so where the the redness there are thirty-five read list countries again that could have changed within the last half hour, but the redness at the moment of the countries, which which have higher cases or higher risks of mutant strains. so people returning from those countries. Anyone that isn’t British or a UK resident, I think is being denied entry, but if you are a resident. Or you’ve got an essential travel reason, then you have to you have to yeah you have to come in with a pre departure test and then you have to quarantine in one of the quarantine hotels for 10 days. I yeah, I don’t I don’t actually know if we’re doing vaccine requirements not to my knowledge but this is the one I would. I would hope that, at least we ask them to have a test. I think we do when they come in or anything else now. Neil Good morning Neil. No need for a passport just make the vaccinated wear a yellow star Neil I don’t know if I can point this out to you right but people wore a yellow star in 1930s Germany because they were oppressed and they were being labeled and targeted for segregation Ghetto and eventually murder. No one who’s being vaccinated is going to be killed as a result, 6000000 people are not going to be lined up and thrown in gas chambers because they. Been given an RNA vaccine, which protects them from a deadly disease you tweet it is entirely massively different and it’s hugely hugely insulting Neil to all those people not just Jews but Epileptics, like me people who are mentally deficient communists homosexuals, gypsies and others who were murdered in the Holocaust to say that in any way, compares to a massive worldwide medical program to save lives. Sorry bill, but that was a silly thing to say now I think that’s probably the best way to end the discussion about vaccine passports I’d I’d just like to say, actually I was talking about this with my family the other day if a pub ran my way. said no one’s getting in without a vaccine I would be happier to go to that pub than any other pub. I’ve had my vaccine. luckily, but you know, II would rather go there to to a public. It is as normal as possible and where you know you’re safe than to a pub where you’ve gotta be behind screens the bar maids wearing a face mask or the social distancing has to keep going and you don’t know if the person who’s used the bathroom before you has got covid or not what about you Jenny would you would you feel safer if we did have vaccine passports for things? Yeah, I mean for me, it’s obviously very different, a different level of protection to a face mask, but for me I feel safer already when people are wearing masks and social distancing, so the fact that you you could go in and know everyone’s vaccinated and that you’re not. And yourself at risk the people you love at risk. Yeah II. personally am I’m forgetting I mean as soon as I can get the vaccine I will and then if that means like you say you can go and sit with your family in the pub you can I can sit with my parents in the pub and not feel like we have to be two meters away and like Yeah II definitely would have it done exactly and as Richie says. Hello Richie thank goodness. there’s someone here with some common sense. We need the vaccine passport to give us confidence the next person’s been vaccinated and even if. You can contract the virus the severity will be reduced. It’s common sense exactly and most people all the surveys show agree with Richie so. hopefully that’s that’s where we’re going to end up. up. I think if this thing does get imposed, people will just start having to do it and then like the face masks it becomes easier and more widely accepted. I think hopefully fingers crossed anyway. thanks for that Julie now I want to move on very quickly to talk about a story that. Very important to me, it’s in the papers today it’s on page 24 and this is about a lady called Shirley Denson and I’ve written about Shirley as part of the nuclear test veterans campaign that I’ve been doing for the scenes 2002 so nearly 20 years and shirley’s husband Eric was an AA. He was ordered to fly through the mushroom cloud of Britain’s most powerful ever. nuclear weapons experiment in 1958, it was called operation grapple y he was a pilot ordered to fly through the. To take samples from inside the he had the equivalent of 165 years worth of background radiation to his head and he was being used in an experiment at the time to test the ability of his planes, radiation meter to take the readings now. When he came down, he was very sick. he was covered with the radiation rash and he came home with a change personality and he had about 18 years of crippling terrible headaches that were not not diagnosable any psychiatrist and I couldn’t work out what was wrong with him and eventually he took his own life at the third attempt, Shirley had found and saved him twice, but he took he managed to succeed on the third time in 1976. She then raised four daughters alone. and I had to live in military housing and so on she also had to raise some of her granddaughters. Her family did have some problems. Twenty 20% so one in five of Eric’s descendants have some kind of congenital birth defect missing an extra teeth most in his family and some spinal problems. Shirley has become a stall of the campaign for justice recognition for the nuclear test veterans and I’ve interviewed her dozens of times over the years, reported a lot on the evidence that she found about her husband’s experimentation and so on and in the past year we helped her apply for something called the Elizabeth Cross, which is a metal. To anyone who has been killed as a result of service to their country and Shelly had previously won a war widows pension on the basis that her husband had died due to his service, although it was a suicide and so we this was a slam dunk they would they were bound to give her this cross and unfortunately it was all the paperwork was all in advance and then Shirley contracted bone and lung cancer. She was stage four very quickly and while she’s on. Deathbed al Murray, who she’s pictured with there outside the MOD a couple of years ago and I were badgering the Mod saying, get a decision for Shirley. She’s dying. She needs this now and the Ministry of defense, having agreed having accepted liability for Eric’s death years ago, turn around and said he doesn’t qualify for this medal. He doesn’t meet the standard of proof we require. Was insulting Al says in the story there it was disappointing but grim consistent with the way they have treated Shirley and other nuclear test veterans for 30 years. It’s just a disgrace and the story there is basically shirley’s obituary. I’m afraid which I’ve had to write despite knowing her for so long her family are continuing with the metal big and any next of kin can apply for Elizabeth Cross and her family. Her daughters are going to continue doing that there are legal moves underway to see see if they can do something else. her funeral was being arranged at the moment and. There’s not really much to discuss about it because as soon as Julie as soon as I mentioned this to anybody, they go well, of course. Of course, this is unreasonable. why would you make someone send fly through a cloud of a nuclear bomb? and of course it’s dangerous, you know, and it’s just it’s one of those things, unfortunately, which we have to keep reporting on because otherwise people like Shelly are passing away now that she was eighty-seven and people just forget that this is something Britain did to its own servicemen between 1950. In 1991, right quite recently. and there are people suffering as a result of it. so sorry that’s my personal rant for the day, but I finally managed to get a bit in the paper and I wanted to share it with you. It will be online as well and please go and buy the paper and have a look and check on shirley’s story. You can read all about Eric and what happened in grapple y at special website. we built a couple of years ago. Damned mira.co.UK and you’ll find out all about Britain’s Nikita and the mirrors campaign there now trying to move on. Something a bit more lighthearted, We have some good news to end the day and here it is. Oh, reggae Jean page Apparently, that’s how you pronounce his name as revealed in an exclusive chat with the that he is happy to be considered the next bond. so the man who in the bridgeton Netflix smash hit with Simon Duke of Hastings, not that anyone really remembers his name that he’s absolutely flattered and it seems to be normal that every British actor who does well gets talked about as the potential next bond in this way and he he sort of says wait and see Judy doesn’t he but to be perfectly. Fair to Reggae, I’m sure he’s a brilliant actor, but we know more about his disarming bum than we do his ability to disarm a bomb. Do you think he would make a good bond or does it not really matter II mean I was a was a huge fan, so I’m going to say yeah make him bond. I it it doesn’t matter he can he can learn all the spy stuff on the side. like yeah I think I think with bond you always want someone that’s a bit dashing and you know I just II just think it’d be. I mean, and you just want to. that’s that’s fine. I think we just want to see more of him, but I think he’s been quite wise to do Britton get noticed and then duck straight out because. my sense with Britton is that they move on to a different sort of lead brother or whatever every series that’s the plan anyway and he’s obviously going to become less of a part of it, but also you’d end up just getting stuck as you know. A broken in breaches sort of thing do it once get noticed Bosch onto the next thing do something serious and gritty next and then bonds waiting for you just around the corner if he’s if he’s sensible reggae, I mean if you if you want any PR advice just ring me up, we can have a long chat on zoom. don’t need to bring your shirt. It’s fine. I’m Daniel Craig. I feel like he’s prepped. He’s got the body already. We know he’s got the body so it’s not just about the body. I know but it’s. What is that and I think I think actually he’s probably got the acting skills to be Rohan. Yes, we all do you don’t run out of so many hearts some acting skills like it wasn’t just you know you you have to have some flare for everyone to fall as hard as we have fallen. It wasn’t just bums No, but in order to portray, you know a functioning alcoholic who sex pests basically, which is what bond is. it’s a terrible human being and. Possible way yet, somehow people still actually quite like him and he still manages to slip under the radar and get into Russian and stuff they were noticing. but I think he’s probably got that there, but although you know bombs over the years they haven’t required a massive amount of acting skills BYO eyebrow some of them. but anyway, hopefully there’s some good news there and something to look forward to hopefully the MOD will be forced to give in and give shirley’s family the medal they deserve and hopefully. Get used to the idea of whatever vaccine passports we might end up having to live with who knows. Thank you. Judy for joining me today and explaining so much of that. Thank you everyone for taking part. Thank you for everyone who didn’t start talking about the Holocaust and to vaccines and we will see you all next Monday for another edition of the news agenda and whatever’s happening there.

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